[funsec] What Happened to The 56 Men Who Signed the Declarationof
knobdy at gmail.com
Fri Jul 6 12:17:37 CDT 2007
On 7/5/07, Dude VanWinkle <dudevanwinkle at gmail.com> wrote:
> Still there are more than a few discrepancies... some of these guys
> went back to the British Side (if only to escape hanging). I dont
> think snopes is nitpicking, but rather being historically accurate.
It is nitpicking because it misses the point - they put their names on
a document that could - if they failed - be their death warrant. These
weren't stupid people and they weren't people with nothing to lose.
THAT is the point.
> is important that we not worship the past, but rather see it for what
> it is: the glorification of a bunch of honkeys beating up everyone in
> sight in order to steal from each other.
WTF are you talking about? If you want to browbeat Adams' methods, do
so, but in this case, for my money, the ends justified the means.
> (It was Brit-on-Brit violence
> based on a 5% tax hike on Tea or some such, in order for Brit #2 <the
> americans> to eventually charge a 7% sales tax on Tea, in addition to
> 30% of a working mans income themselves>
Taxing income was not on the minds of these 56 signers. In fact, I'm
fairly sure they would consider that theft and overthrown such a
government. We haven't done that because we're not cut of the same
cloth. Just one more reason to hold these men in such high esteem!
Further, the level of taxes weren't at issue so much as their purpose.
The colonies needed things that it depended on the King for - it
wasn't getting them even though they continued to pay their taxes, and
their ever increasing taxes. When the colonies complained the king did
the opposite of what he should have done and penalized them some more.
Seems to me that if the king hadn't been such an a-hole (or diseased
and insane, as has been suggested) we might look a lot more like
Canada or Australia. Just a guess, but there were plenty of reluctant
patriots to support such ideas.
> -JP<who is very proud _not_ to have killed anyone for anything>
I'm not sure why you would be proud of such a nothing. Does that mean
you look down on those who did have to kill, either in self-defense or
the defense of their country?
> P.s: Unless you fought in WWII, you werent "preserving" anything
> except the flow of spice, as I cant recall america being seriously
> threatened since then>
Yep, you do. That's pretty sad. Your understanding of States and the
wars they wage, and therefore the people that serve, is seriously
flawed. I would suggest you visit your nearest VFW hall and buy beers
for everyone in attendance in exchange for their stories
(unfortunately these places are pretty "dead" these days, forgive the
pun). You MIGHT come away with some understanding of what it means to
Btw, Vietnam and Korea were both our attempts to defend the world from
the evil of communism. Our allies in Korea were the Koreans themselves
who were, are and probably always will be thankful. Just because you
care not for any of these people a half world away doesn't mean they
didn't care about their children and want to see them grow up and
become successful. Those who didn't now live in the darkest spot on a
satellite photograph and face constant starvation - while their
benevolent leader sips expensive bourbon.
In Vietnam our allies were the French (buggered again, eh) and the
Vietnamese themselves. In that case, too many people over here
believed the same as you - that these people aren't important to us.
We pulled out and many, many died. We never lost the war, we pulled
out, under the pressure of cowards over here, period.
For me, whether you served in peacetime or in a war, for the U.S., one
of its states or England, Israel, whomever - I solute you. I do not
solute you for having killed anyone either - those are stories rarely
told and for good reason - but, as one naval tribute says, for having
made the trip. I hope you all had a good 4th and that, at some point
while dodging flack from friendly firework fire, you patted yourself
on the back for having contributed to the celebration at the highest
level...though I know you didn't, and that's my point. Thank you.
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